Now King Milinda approached Venerable Nagasena. Having approached, he greeted Venerable Nagasena in a friendly manner. Having completed the usual friendly greetings, he sat down on one side. Venerable Nagasena returned the compliment, thereby delighting the heart of King Milinda. Then King Milinda said this to Venerable Nagasena: "How is your Reverence known? what is your name, Reverend Sir?"
"As 'Nagasena,' great king, am I known; 'Nagasena,' great king, is what my fellow-religious are accustomed to call me. However, although mothers and fathers give such names as 'Nagasena' or 'Surasena' or 'Virasena' or 'Sihasena,' yet, great king, this 'Nagasena' is only a conventional epithet, designation, appellation, style,--a mere name. For no 'individual' is thereby assumed to exist."
Then King Milinda spoke as follows: "Give ear to me, you five hundred Greeks and you eighty thousand monks! Nagasena here speaks as follows: 'For no "individual" is thereby assumed to exist.' Is it reasonable to accept this?" Then King Milinda said this to Venerable Nagasena: "If, Reverend Nagasena, an 'individual' is not assumed to exist, who pray, gives you the Requisites,--robes, alms, lodging, medicines for the relief of the sick? Who enjoys them? Who keeps the Precepts? Who applies himself to the Practice of Meditation? Who realizes the Paths and the Fruits and Nirvana? Who kills living beings? Who takes what is not given? Who misconducts himself in the matter of the Pleasures of Sense? Who speaks falsehood? Who drinks intoxicants? Who does the five evil deeds which bring immediate retribution? Ergo,--there is no good, there is no evil; there is no one who either does or causes to be done either good or evil deeds; there is no fruition, no ripening, of good and evil deeds. If, Reverend Nagasena, he that kills you does not exist, then it is also true that he does not take life; it is also true, Reverend Nagasena, that you have no teacher, no preceptor, no reception into the Order of Monks.
"Now you say: '"Nagasena" is what my fellow-religious are accustomed to call me.' What is this 'Nagasena' you speak of? Reverend Sir, is the hair of the head 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Is the hair of the body 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Are the nails, the teeth, the skin, the flesh, the sinews, the bones, the marrow of the bones, the kidneys, the heart, the liver, the peritoneum, the spleen, the lungs, the intestines, the mesentery, the stomach, the feces, the bile, the phlegm, the pus, the blood, the sweat, the fat, the tears, the serum, the saliva, the mucus of the nose, the synovial fluid, the urine, the gray matter in the skull,--are any or all of these 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king."
"Pray, Reverend Sir, is Form 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Is Sensation 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Is Perception 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Are the States of Mind 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Is Consciousness 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Well, Reverend Sir! Is the sum total of Form, Sensation, Perception, the States of Mind, and Consciousness,--is this 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Well, Reverend Sir! Is something other than the sum total of Form, Sensation, Perception, the States of Mind, and Consciousness,--is this 'Nagasena'?" "No indeed, great king." "Reverend Sir, I have asked you every question I can think of, but I cannot discover 'Nagasena'! Apparently 'Nagasena' is nothing but a sound! But, Reverend Sir, what is there about all this that is 'Nagasena'? Reverend Sir, you utter untruth, you utter falsehood, when you say: 'There is no "Nagasena." Then Venerable Nagasena said this to king Milinda:
"You, great king, are a delicate prince, an exceedingly delicate prince. If you, great king, being the kind of man you are, travel on foot in the middle of the day, when the earth has become heated, when the sand is hot, treading on sharp pebbles and gravel and sand, your feet ache, your body grows weary, your mind is distressed, and a body-consciousness associated with pain arises within you. Tell me,--did you come on foot or in a vehicle?--"
"Reverend Sir, I do not travel on foot; I came in a chariot.--"
"If, great king, you came in a chariot, tell me about the chariot. Pray, great king, is the pole the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the axle the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Are the wheels the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the chariot-body the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the flagstaff of the chariot the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the yoke the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Are the reins the 'chariot'?"--No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the goad-stick the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Well, great king! Is the sum total of pole, axle, wheels, chariot-body, flagstaff, yoke, reins, and goad,--is this the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Well, great king! Is something other than the sum total of pole, axle, wheels, chariot-body, flagstaff, yoke, reins, and goad,--is this the 'chariot'?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Great king, I have asked you every question I can think of, but I cannot discover the 'chariot'! Apparently the 'chariot' is nothing but a sound! But, great king, what is there about all this that is the 'chariot'? Great king, you utter untruth, you utter falsehood, when you say: 'There is no "chariot.": You, great king, are the foremost king in all the Land of the Rose-apple. Of whom, pray, are you afraid that you utter falsehood?
"Give ear to me, you five hundred Greeks and you eighty thousand monks! King Milinda here speaks as follows: 'I came in a chariot.' But when I say to him: 'If, great king, you came in a chariot, tell me about the chariot!' he cannot prove that there is any chariot. Is it reasonable to accept this?"
Hearing this, the five hundred Greeks applauded Venerable Nagasena, and said this to King Milinda: 'Now, great king, answer if you can!' Then King Milinda said this to Venerable Nagasena: "Reverend Nagasena, I do not utter falsehood. Because of the pole, and because of the axle, and because of the wheels, and because of the chariot-body, and because of the flagstaff, the epithet, designation, appellation, style, name--'chariot'--comes into use."
"Great king, you understand perfectly what a chariot is. And precisely the same thing, is true with reference to me also. Because of the hair of the head, and because of the hair of the body, and because of the nails, and because of the teeth, and because of the skin, and because of the flesh, and because of the sinews, and because of the bones, and because of the marrow of the bones, and because of the kidneys, and because of the heart, and because of the liver, and because of the peritoneum, and because of the spleen, and because of the lungs, and because of the intestines, and because of the mesentery, and because of the stomach, and because of the feces, and because of the bile, and because of the phlegm, and because of the pus, and because of the blood, and because of the sweat, and because of the fat, and because of the tears, and because of the serum, and because of the saliva, and because of the mucus of the nose, and because of the synovial fluid, and because of the urine, and because of the gray matter in the skull,--and because of Form, and because of Sensation, and because of Perception, and because of the States of Mind, and because of Consciousness,--because of all these, there comes into use the epithet, designation, appellation, style, name,--but name only,--'Nagasena.' In the highest sense of the word, however, no 'individual' is thereby assumed to exist. Moreover, great king, listen to what the nun Vajira said in the presence of the Exalted One:
"'For just as for an assemblage of parts
"It is wonderful, Reverend Nagasena! it is marvelous, Reverend Nagasena! Brilliant beyond measure, highly illuminating, are the answers you have given to these questions! If the Buddha were standing here, he would give his applause. Well done, well done, Nagasena! Brilliant beyond measure, highly illuminating, are the answers you have given to these questions!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena, is the person who is reborn the same person, or a different person?" Said the Elder: "He is neither the same person nor a different person." "Give me an illustration."
"What do you think about this, great king? You are now big. You were once young, tender, weak, lying on your back. Are you the same person now that you were then?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir. He that was young, tender, weak, lying on his back, was one person; I, big as I am now, am a different person.
"If this be true, great king, then it must also be true that you never had a mother, that you never had a father, that you never had a teacher, that you never acquired the arts and crafts, that you never took upon yourself the Precepts, that you never acquired a store of merit. Can it possibly be true, great king, that the mother of the embryo in the first stage of development is one person, that the mother of the embryo in the second stage is another, that the mother of the embryo in the third stage is another, that the mother of the embryo in the fourth stage is another? Is the mother of the little child one person, and the mother of the grown man another? Is it one person who acquires the arts and crafts, and another person who has acquired them? Is it one person who does evil deeds, and another person whose hands and feet are cut off?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir. But how about you, Reverend Sir? suppose that same question were put to you; what would you have to say to it?"
"It was I myself, great king, who was once young, tender, weak, lying on my back; it is I myself who am now big. Solely because of dependence on this body, all these are embraced in one."--"Give me an illustration."
"Suppose, great king, some man or other were to light a lamp. Would that lamp burn all night long?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir, it would burn all night long."
"Well, great king, is the flame that burns in the first watch the same as the flame that burns in the middle watch?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Is the flame that burns in the middle watch the same as the flame that burns in the last watch?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Well, great king, was the lamp one thing in the first watch, something different in the middle watch, and something still different in the last watch?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir. The lamp was only the cause of the flame that burned all night long."
"Precisely so, great king, there is an uninterrupted succession of mental and physical states. One state ceases to exist and another comes to exist. The succession is such that there is, as it were, none that precedes, none that follows. Thus it is neither that same person nor yet a different person which goes to the final summation of consciousness." "Give me another illustration."
"Take the case of sweet milk, great king. Let it stand for a time after it has been drawn, and it will turn into sour milk; from sour milk, it will turn into fresh butter, and from fresh butter into clarified butter. Suppose, great king, a man were to say: 'The sweet milk is the same thing as the sour milk, and the sour milk is the same thing as the fresh butter, and the fresh butter is the same thing as the clarified butter.' Great king, would a man speak correctly who said such a thing as that?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir. The milk is only the cause of the butter which comes."
"Precisely so, great king, there is an uninterrupted succession of mental and physical states. One state ceases to exist and another comes to exist. The succession is such that there is, as it were, none that precedes, none that follows. Thus it is neither that same person nor yet a different person which goes to the final summation of consciousness."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena, what is reborn?" Said the Elder: "Name-and-Form, great king, is reborn." "Is it this same Name-and-Form that is reborn?" "No, great king, it is not this same Name-and-Form that is reborn. On the contrary, great king, with one Name-and-Form Karma is wrought, a man does good or evil deeds, and by the power of this Karma another Name-and-Form is reborn." "If, Reverend Sir, it is not this same Name-and-Form that is reborn, surely the man must be released from his evil deeds." Said the Elder: "If he were not reborn, he would be released from his evil deeds; but since, great king, he is reborn, therefore he is not released from his evil deeds." "Give me an illustration."
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man or other were to steal mangoes belonging to a certain man, and the owner of the mangoes were to catch that thief and were to arraign him before the king and were to say, 'This man, your majesty, stole my mangoes,' and the thief were to say, 'Your majesty, I didn't steal this man's mangoes; the mangoes this man planted are one thing, and the mangoes I stole are another; I am not guilty.' In point of fact, great king, would not that man be guilty?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, he would be guilty."
"For what reason?"
"No matter what that man might say, Reverend Sir, he would not he able to deny that the last mango came from the first, and therefore he would be guilty of the theft of the last mango."
"Precisely so, great king, with one Name-and-Form Karma is wrought, a man does good or evil deeds, and by the power of this Karma another Name-and-Form is reborn. Therefore he is not released from his evil deeds." "Give me another illustration."
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man were to steal another man's rice...sugar-cane...
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man, in the winter-time, were to light a fire and warm himself and then go away without putting it out, and that fire were to set fire to a certain man's field, and the owner of the field were to catch that man and were to arraign him before the king and were to say, 'This man, your majesty, set fire to my field,' and the man were to say, 'Your majesty, I didn't set fire to this man's field; the fire I failed to put out is one thing, and the fire that set fire to this man's field is another; I am not guilty.' In point of fact, great king, would not that man be guilty?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, he would be guilty."
"For what reason?"
"No matter what that man might say, Reverend Sir, he would not be able to deny that the last fire came from the first, and therefore he would be guilty of setting the last fire."
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man or other were to take a lamp and were to climb to the attic of a thatched house and were to eat, and the lamp as it burned were to set fire to the thatch, and the thatch as it burned were to set fire to the house, and the house as it burned were to set fire to the village, and the village-folk were to catch that man and were to say, 'Why, Master man, did you set fire to the village?' and the man were to say, 'Friends, I didn't set fire to the village; the fire of the lamp by whose light I ate is one thing, but the fire that burned the village is another.' Suppose they carried the dispute to you. Whose side, great king, would you take?"
"The side of the village-folk, Reverend Sir."
"Why?"
"That man might say whatever he would, but all the same, that last fire came straight from the first."
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man or other were to choose a young girl to be his wife and were to pay the purchase-money and were to go his way, and after a time that young girl were to become a grown woman, were to attain her majority, and then a second man were to pay the purchase-money and were to marry her, and the first man were to come and say, 'But why, Master man, are you carrying off my wife?' and the second man were to say, 'I am not carrying off your wife; that young girl of tender years whom you chose to be your wife and for whom you paid the purchase-money is one person; this grown woman who has attained her majority, whom I chose to be my wife and for whom I paid the purchase-money, is another person.' Suppose they carried the dispute to you. Whose side, great king, would you take?"
"The side of the first man, Reverend Sir."
"Why?"
"That man might say whatever he would, but all the same, that grown woman came straight from that young girl."
"Great king, it is precisely as if some man or other were to buy a pot of milk from the hands of a cowherd, and were to place it in the hands of that same cowherd and were to go his way, saying, 'To-morrow I'll come and get it,' and on that morrow that milk were to turn to curds, and that man were to come and say, 'Give me the pot of milk,' and the cowherd were to show him the curds, and the man were to say, 'I didn't buy curds at your hands; give me the pot of milk!' and the cowherd were to say, 'I didn't know your milk had turned to curds!' Suppose they carried the dispute to you. Whose side, great king, would you take?"
"The side of the cowherd, Reverend Sir."
"Why?"
"That man might say whatever he would, but all the same, those curds came straight from that milk."
"Precisely so, great king, although one Name-and-Form comes to an end at death, and another Name-and-Form comes into existence at rebirth, nevertheless the second comes straight from the first. Therefore that man is not released from his evil deeds."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena,--but as for this expression which you employ,--Name-and-Form:--in this complex, what is Name? what is Form?" "Whatever in this complex, great king, is gross and coarse, this is Form; whatever entities in this complex are fine, of the mind, mental, these are Name." "Reverend Nagasena, why is it that Name, all by itself, is not reborn? or Form, all by itself?" "Dependent one upon the other, great king, are these entities; they invariably come into existence together." "Give an illustration."
"Suppose, great king, a hen had no germ of new life in her. In that case neither would there be any egg. Of these two,--germ and egg,--both are absolutely dependent the one upon the other; they invariably come into existence together."
"Precisely so, great king, if in this complex there were no Name, neither would there be any Form. Of these two,--Name and Form,--both are absolutely dependent the one upon the other; they invariably come into existence together. Thus has Name-and-Form been brought into existence for a long time."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena,--but as for this expression which you employ,--'long time': what do you mean by this word 'time'?" "Past time, great king, future time, present time....And of all this time a starting-point is unknown."..."But as for this statement which you make,--'a starting-point is unknown': give an illustration of this."
"Great king, it is precisely as if a man were to plant a tiny seed in the earth, and from that seed a sprout were to come up and in the course of time were to attain growth, increase, development, and were to yield fruit; and as if, from that fruit, the man were to take a seed and plant again, and from that seed a sprout were to come up and in the course of time were to attain growth, increase, development, and were to yield fruit. Is there any end to this series?"
"There is not, Reverend Sir."
"Precisely so, great king, is it with time also; of it no starting-point is known." "Give me another illustration."
"Great king, it is precisely as if you had an egg from a hen, and a hen from the egg, and an egg from the hen. Is there any end to this series?"
"There is not, Reverend Sir."
"Precisely so, great king, is it with time also; of it no starting-point is known." "Give me another illustration."
The Elder drew a circle on the ground and said this to King Milinda:
"Great king, is there any end to this circle?"
"There is not, Reverend Sir."
"Precisely so, great king, is it with time also; of it no starting-point is known."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said King Milinda to the sage Nagasena: "Reverend Nagasena, are there any things that exist which come out of things that did not exist?"
"There are not, great king, any things that exist which come out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed, great king, come things that exist." "Give me an illustration."
"Well, what do you think, great king? Did this house where you are now sitting come out of things that did not exist?"
"There is not a single thing here, Reverend Sir, which came out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed did it come. For example, Reverend Sir, these timbers existed in the forest, and this clay existed in the earth. Thus, through the effort, through the exertion, of women and men, did this house come to exist."
"Precisely so, great king, there are not any things that exist which come out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed, great king, come things that exist." "Illustrate the point further."
"For example, great king, when the different varieties of seed-life and plant-life are placed in the earth, in due course they will attain increase, growth, development, and will yield flowers and fruits. But these plants do not come out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed do they come.
"For example, great king, a potter takes clay out of the earth and makes various kinds of vessels. But these vessels do not come out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed do they come.
"For example, great king, suppose a lyre had no leaf, had no skin, had no bowl, had no handle, had no neck, had no strings, had no quill, and suppose there were no effort or exertion on the part of a human being,--would any sound come out?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"On the other hand, great king, if the lyre had a leaf, had a skin, had a bowl, had a handle, had a neck, had strings, had a quill, and if there were effort and exertion on the part of a human being,--a sound would come out?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, a sound would come out."
"For example, great king, suppose a fire-drill had no fire-stick, had no fire-stick base, had no fire-stick cord, had no upper fire-stick, had no rag, and suppose there were no effort or exertion on the part of a human being,--could fire be produced?
No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"On the other hand, great king, if the fire-drill had a fire-stick, had a fire-stick base, had a fire-stick cord, had an upper fire-stick, had a rag, and if there were effort and exertion on the part of a human being,--fire could be produced?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, fire could be produced."
"For example, great king, suppose there were no burning-glass, no heat from the sun, no cow-dung,--could fire be produced?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"On the other hand, great king, if there were a burning-glass, if there were heat from the sun, if there were cow-dung,--fire could be produced?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, fire could be produced."
"For example, great king, suppose there were no mirror, no light, no face,--would any reflection appear?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"On the other hand, great king, if there were a mirror, if there were light, if there were a face,--a reflection would appear?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, a reflection would appear."
"Precisely so, great king, there are not any things that exist which come out of things that did not exist. Only out of things that existed, great king, come things that exist."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena, do you assume the existence of the soul?" "But, great king, what is this thing you call the 'soul'?" "The living principle within, Reverend Sir, which with the eye sees visible objects, with the ear hears sounds, with the nose smells odors, with the tongue tastes flavors, with the body touches tangible objects, with the mind perceives the Doctrine:--just as we here, sitting in this palace, may look out of whatever window we please,--east, west, north, south,--so also, Reverend Sir, this living principle within looks out of whatever door it pleases." Said the Elder: "Let me tell you, great king, about the Five Doors of the Senses. Hearken to this! give close attention!
"If there is a living principle within which sees visible objects with the eye, just as we, sitting in this palace, may look out of whatever window we please,--east, west, north, south,--can this living principle within, in like manner, see visible objects equally well with the ear, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind? Can it hear sounds equally well with the eye, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind? Can it smell odors equally well with the eye, the ear, the tongue, the body, and the mind? Can it taste flavors equally well with the eye, the ear, the nose, the body, and the mind? Can it touch tangible objects equally well with the eye, the ear, the nose, the tongue, and the mind? Can it perceive the Doctrine equally well with the eye, the ear, the nose, the tongue, and the body?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, what you said last does not agree with what you said first, nor does what you said first agree with what you said last.
"But again, great king, take ourselves for example. You and I, sitting in this palace, with these lattice-windows flung open, in broad daylight, with our faces turned outward, see visible objects perfectly. Can this living principle within, also, in like manner, when the doors of the eyes are flung open, in broad daylight, see visible objects perfectly? When the doors of the ears are flung open, when the door of the nose is flung open, when the door of the tongue is flung open, when the door of the body is flung open, in broad daylight, can it hear sounds perfectly, smell odors, taste flavors, touch tangible objects?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, what you said last does not agree with what you said first, nor does what you said first agree with what you said last."
"But again, great king, suppose Dinna here were to go out and stand outside of the gateway. Would you, great king, know: 'Dinna here has gone out and stands outside of the gateway'?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, I should know."
"But again, great king, suppose Dinna here were to come in and stand in front of you. Would you, great king, know: 'Dinna here has come in and is standing in front of me'?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, I should know. In just the same way, great king, in case a flavor were placed on the tongue, would this living principle within know whether it was sour or salt or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, it would know."
"But after that flavor has passed into the stomach, would the living principle then know whether it was sour or salt or bitter or pungent or astringent or sweet?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir. But, great king, what you said last does not agree with what you said first, nor does what you said first agree with what you said last.
"Suppose, great king, some man or other were to fetch a hundred pots of honey and were to fill a trough of honey and were to seal some man's lips and were to throw that man into the trough of honey. Great king, would that man know whether he was in honey or not?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Why?"
"Because, Reverend Sir, the honey could not get into his mouth."
"But, great king, what you said last does not agree with what you said first, nor does what you said first agree with what you said last."
"I am no match for you in an argument. Be good enough to explain the matter to me."
The Elder enlightened King Milinda with a discourse on Abhidhamma: "Here in this world, great king, because of the eye and because of visible objects arises the sense of sight; simultaneously are produced contact, sensation, perception, thought, focusing of thoughts, vitality, attention. Thus do these physical and mental states originate from a cause, for there is no soul involved in any of them. Because of the ear and because of sounds arises the sense of sound; because of the nose and because of odors arises the sense of smell; because of the tongue and because of flavors arises the sense of taste; because of the body and because of tangible objects arises the sense of touch. Because of the mind and because of objects of thought arises mental consciousness; simultaneously are produced contact, sensation, perception, thought, focusing of thoughts, vitality, attention. Thus do these physical and mental states originate from a cause, for there is no soul involved in any of them."
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!"
Said the king: "Reverend Nagasena, you Buddhists say: 'Far hotter than any ordinary fire is the Fire of Hell. A tiny stone, cast into any ordinary fire, will smoke for a whole day and not crumble. But a rock as big as a pagoda, cast into the Fire of Hell, will crumble in an instant.' But on the other hand you also say this: 'As for the living beings that are reborn in Hell, no matter how many thousands of years they are tormented therein, they go not to destruction.' That is something I do not believe."
Said the Elder:
"What do you think about this, great king? Do not female sharks and crocodiles and tortoises and peacocks and pigeons swallow hard stones and gravel?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, they do."
"Now these hard substances, once inside of their abdomen, once in their belly, go to destruction; do they not?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, they do."
"But does the embryo in their belly also go to destruction?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"For what reason?"
"I suppose, Reverend Sir, it is because of the Power of Karma that it does not go to destruction."
"Precisely so, great king, because of the Power of Karma, the denizens of Hell, no matter how many thousands of years they are tormented in Hell, go not to destruction. Right there are they born, right there do they grow up, right there do they die. Moreover, great king, this was said by the Exalted One: 'He shall not die so long as that Evil Karma is not exhausted.'"
"Give me another illustration."
"What do you think about this, great king? Do not lionesses and tigresses and leopardesses and bitches eat meat with hard bones in it?...
"What do you think about this, great king? Do not the delicate princesses of the Greeks and of the Warriors and of the Brahmans and of the householders eat pieces of meat that are hard and tough?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, they do."
"Now these hard substances, once inside of their abdomen, once in their belly, go to destruction; do they not?"
"Yes, Reverend Sir, they do."
"But does the embryo in their belly also go to destruction?"
"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"For what reason?"
"I suppose, Reverend Sir, it is because of the Power of Karma that it does not go to destruction."
"Precisely so, great king, because of the Power of Karma, the denizens of Hell, no matter how many thousands of years they are tormented in Hell, go not to destruction. Right there are they born, right there do they grow up, right there do they die. Moreover, great king, this was said by the Exalted One: 'He shall not die so long as that Evil Karma is not yet exhausted.'"
"You are a clever man, Reverend Nagasena!" "Reverend Nagasena, is Nirvana unalloyed bliss, or is it alloyed with pain?" "Nirvana, great king, is unalloyed bliss; it is not alloyed with pain." "I, Reverend Nagasena, do not believe that statement: 'Nirvana is unalloyed bliss.' This, Reverend Nagasena, is my firm conviction on the subject: 'Nirvana is alloyed with pain.' Now I have a reason to give for this statement: 'Nirvana is alloyed with pain.' What is the reason for this?"
"Reverend Nagasena, in the case of all those who seek after Nirvana, plainly evident are their effort and exertion of body and mind, their self-restraint in standing and walking and sitting and lying and eating, their suppression of sleep, their repression of the Organs of Sense, their renunciation of goods and grain and of dear kinsfolk and friends.
"Now persons in the world who are happy, who are endowed with happiness, all with one accord please and increase their Organs of Sense: the eye with all manner of delightful visible objects which yield pleasurable reflexes; the ear with songs and strains; the nose with odors of flowers, fruits, leaves, bark, roots, essences; the tongue with flavors of hard and soft food and of sippings and drinkings and tastings; the body with contacts with objects both delicate and fine, both soft and mild; the mind by fixing the attention of the thoughts on all manner of delightful objects of thought, both good and evil, both pure and impure."
"But you strike at and strike down, hew at and hew down, obstruct and impede, the increase of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind. Therefore both the body suffers and the mind suffers. When the body suffers, sensations of bodily pain are experienced; when the mind suffers, sensations of mental pain are experienced. Did not also Magan-Diya the wandering ascetic, in railing at the Exalted One, say this: 'A Destroyer of Increase is the monk Gautama'? This is my reason for saying: 'Nirvana is alloyed with pain.'"
"No indeed, great king, Nirvana is not alloyed with pain; Nirvana is unalloyed bliss. Now, great king, as to your statement that Nirvana is pain,--this pain is not Nirvana at all; this is only the beginning of the realization of Nirvana, this is only the seeking after Nirvana. Nirvana, great king, is unalloyed bliss, pure and simple; it is not alloyed with pain. Let me explain what I mean.
"Great king, do kings enjoy the bliss of sovereignty?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir, kings enjoy the bliss of sovereignty."
"Now, great king, is this bliss of sovereignty alloyed with pain?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, what have you to say to this? When a border-province breaks into insurrection, in order to quell those border-inhabitants, kings go afield with their retinues of ministers and captains and soldiers and servants, permit themselves to be tormented by gnats and mosquitoes, by wind and sun, hurry this way and that over even and uneven ground, wage mighty battles, and risk their lives!"
"Reverend Nagasena, this is not the bliss of sovereignty; this is only a preliminary to the quest of the bliss of sovereignty. With pain, Reverend Nagasena, do kings seek after sovereignty; then they enjoy the bliss of sovereignty. Thus, Reverend Nagasena, the bliss of sovereignty is not alloyed with pain. Bliss of sovereignty is one thing; pain is quite another."
"Precisely so, great king, Nirvana is unalloyed bliss...
"Great king, do teachers who know the arts and crafts enjoy the bliss of the arts and crafts?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir, teachers who know the arts and crafts enjoy the bliss of the arts and crafts."
"Now, great king, is this bliss of the arts and crafts alloyed with pain?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, what have you to say to this? They torture their bodies with services to teachers,--by rising to greet, by rising to meet, by fetching water and sweeping houses and presenting toothsticks and water for rinsing the mouth, by accepting remnants of food and shampooing and bathing and dressing the feet, by submission of their own wills, by compliance with the wills of others, by sleeping in discomfort, by eating all kinds of food!"
"Reverend Nagasena, this is not the bliss of the arts and crafts; this is only a preliminary to the quest of the arts and crafts. With pain, Reverend Nagasena, do teachers seek to acquire the arts and crafts; then they enjoy the bliss of the arts and crafts. Thus, Reverend Nagasena, the bliss of the arts and crafts is not alloyed with pain. The bliss of the arts and crafts is one thing; pain is quite another."
"Precisely so, great king, Nirvana is unalloyed bliss; it is not alloyed with pain. But those who are seeking after this Nirvana, torture both body and mind. They restrain themselves in standing and walking and sitting and lying and eating; they suppress sleep; they repress the Organs of Sense; they renounce both body and life. However, having sought Nirvana with pain, they enjoy a Nirvana which is unalloyed bliss, just as teachers enjoy the bliss of the arts and crafts. Thus, great king, Nirvana is unalloyed bliss; it is not alloyed with pain. Pain is one thing; Nirvana is quite another."
"Good, Reverend Nagasena! So it is! I agree absolutely!
"Reverend Nagasena, you are continually talking about Nirvana. Now is it possible to make clear the form or figure or age or dimensions of this Nirvana, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method?" "Nirvana, great king, is unlike anything else; it is impossible." "This, Reverend Nagasena, I cannot admit,--that if Nirvana really exists, it should be impossible to make known its form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method. Tell me why." "Let be, great king; I will tell you why.
"Is there, great king, such a thing as the great ocean?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir, there is such a thing as the great ocean."
"If, great king, some man were to ask you: 'Great king, how much water is there in the great ocean? And how many living creatures dwell in the great ocean?'--if, great king, some man were to ask you this question, how would you answer him?
"If, Reverend Sir, some man were to ask me: 'Great king, how much water is there in the great ocean? And how many living creatures dwell in the great ocean?' I, Reverend Sir, should say this to him: 'The question you ask, Master man, is a question you have no right to ask; that is no question for anybody to ask; that question must be set aside. The hair-splitters have never gone into the subject of the great ocean. It is impossible to measure the water in the great ocean, or to count the living beings that make their abode there.' That is the reply I should give him, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, if the great ocean really exists, why should you give him such a reply as that? Surely you ought to measure and count, and then tell him: 'There is so much water in the great ocean, and there are so many living beings dwelling in the great ocean!'"
"It's impossible, Reverend Sir. That question isn't a fair one."
"Great king, just as, although the great ocean exists, it is impossible to measure the water or to count the living beings that make their abode there, precisely so, great king, although Nirvana really exists, it is impossible to make clear the form or figure or age or dimensions of Nirvana, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method. Great king, a person possessed of magical power, possessed of mastery over mind, could estimate the quantity of water in the great ocean and the number of living beings dwelling there; but that person possessed of magical power, possessed of mastery over mind, would never be able to make clear the form or figure or age or dimensions of Nirvana, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method."
"Yet again, great king, hear one more reason why this is impossible:
"Are there, great king, among the gods, gods that are called the Formless Gods?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir, according to sacred lore, there are, among the gods, gods that are called the Formless Gods."
"Now, great king, in the case of these Formless Gods, is it possible to make clear their form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"Well then, Reverend Sir, there are no Formless Gods!"
"Reverend Sir, there are Formless Gods! But it is not possible to make clear their form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method."
"Great king, just as, although the Formless Gods are beings that really exist, it is not possible to make clear their form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method, precisely so, great king, although Nirvana really exists, it is not possible to make clear its form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method."
"Reverend Nagasena, granted that Nirvana is unalloyed bliss, and that it is impossible to make clear its form or figure or age or dimensions, either by an illustration or by a reason or by a cause or by a method. But, Reverend Sir, has Nirvana any qualities in common with other tilings,--something that might serve as an illustration or example?"
"In the matter of form, great king, it has not. But in the matter of qualities, there are some illustrations and examples which might be employed."
"Good, Reverend Nagasena! And that I may receive, even with reference to the qualities of Nirvana, some little light on a single point, speak quickly! Quench the fever in my heart! Subdue it with the cool, sweet breezes of your words!"
"Great king, Nirvana has one quality in common with the lotus.
"Just as the lotus is not polluted by water, so also Nirvana is not polluted by any of the Depravities.
"Just as water is cool and quenches fever, so also Nirvana is cool and quenches every one of the Depravities.
"But again further,--water subdues the thirst of the races of men and animals when they are tired and weary and thirsty and overcome with the heat. Precisely so Nirvana subdues the thirst of Craving for the Pleasures of Sense, of Craving for Existence, of Craving for Power and Wealth.
"Just as medicine is the refuge of living beings oppressed by poison, so also Nirvana is the refuge of living beings oppressed by the poison of the Depravities.
"But again further,--medicine puts an end to bodily ills. Precisely so Nirvana puts an end to all sufferings. But again further,--medicine is deathess. Precisely so Nirvana is the Deathless.
"Just as the great ocean is free from any corpses, so also Nirvana is free from any of the Depravities. But again further,--the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all of the streams [that flow into it]. Precisely so Nirvana is vast, boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings [that pass thereunto].
"But again further,--the great ocean is the abode of mighty beings. Precisely so Nirvana is the abode of mighty beings,--the mighty Saints, in whom there is no stain, in whom the Contaminations are extinct, who have attained unto power, who have become masters of self.
"But again further,--the great ocean is all in blossom, as it were, with the flowers of its waves,--mighty, various, unnumbered. Precisely so Nirvana is all in blossom, as it were, with the Flowers of Purity, Knowledge, and Deliverance,--mighty, various, unnumbered.
"Just as food is the support of life of all living beings, so also Nirvana, once realized, is the support of life, for it destroys old age and death.
"But again further,--food increases the strength of all living beings. Precisely so Nirvana, once realized, increases the strength of the Power of Magic of all living beings.
"But again further,--food is the source of the beauty of all living beings. Precisely so Nirvana, once realized, is the source of the beauty of the virtues of all living beings.
"But again further,--food relieves the wear and tear to which all living beings are subject. Precisely so Nirvana, once realized, relieves the wear and tear to which all living beings are subject because of the Depravities, one and all.
"But again further,--food dispels the weakness of hunger in all living beings. Precisely so Nirvana, once realized, dispels the weakness of hunger produced by all manner of sufferings in all living beings.
"Just as space is not produced, does not age, does not suffer death, does not pass out of existence, does not come into existence, cannot be forcibly handled, cannot be carried away by thieves, rests on nothing, is the pathway of birds, presents no obstacles, is endless,--so also Nirvana is not produced, does not age, does not suffer death, does not pass out of existence, does not come into existence, cannot be forcibly handled, cannot be carried away by thieves, rests on nothing, is the pathway of the Noble, presents no obstacles, is endless.
"Just as the wishing-jewel fulfils desires, so also Nirvana fulfils desires.
"But again further,--the wishing-jewel provokes a smile of satisfaction. Precisely so Nirvana provokes a smile of satisfaction.
"But again further,--the wishing-jewel diffuses luster. Precisely so Nirvana diffuses luster.
"Just as red-sandalwood is difficult to obtain, so also Nirvana is difficult to obtain.
"But again further,--red-sandalwood exhales fragrance which is unequaled. Precisely so Nirvana exhales fragrance which is unequaled.
"But again further,--red-sandalwood is praised by the well-born. Precisely so Nirvana is praised by the Noble.
"Just as the cream of ghee possesses beauty, so also Nirvana possesses beauty of quality.
"But again further,--the cream of ghee possesses fragrance. Precisely so Nirvana possesses the Fragrance of Morality.
"But again further,--the cream of ghee possesses flavor. Precisely so Nirvana possesses flavor.
"Just as a mountain-peak is exceedingly lofty, so also Nirvana is exceedingly lofty.
"But again further,--a mountain-peak is immovable. Precisely so Nirvana is immovable.
"But again further,--a mountain-peak is difficult of ascent. Precisely so Nirvana is difficult of ascent for the Depravities, one and all.
"But again further,--on a mountain-peak seeds, any and all, will not grow. Precisely so, in Nirvana the Depravities, any and all, will not grow.
"But again further,--a mountain-peak is free from cringing and repulsion. Precisely so Nirvana is free from cringing and repulsion."
"Good, Reverend Nagasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!"
"It is neither produced nor not produced nor to be produced. Yet it exists, and may be realized."
"Reverend Nagasena, you Buddhists say: 'Nirvana is neither past nor future nor present; it is neither produced nor not produced nor to be produced.' With reference to this point, Reverend Nagasena,--does the person who, by ordering his walk aright, realizes Nirvana, realize something which has already been produced?--or does, he first produce it and then realize it?"
"Whoever, great king, by ordering his walk aright, realizes Nirvana, neither realizes something which has already been produced, nor first produces and then realizes it. Nevertheless, great king, this element Nirvana, which whoever orders his walk aright realizes, exists."
"Do not, Reverend Nagasena, throw light on this question by covering it; throw light on it by uncovering it, by making it manifest. Rouse your will! rouse your effort! pour out on this very point all that you have learned from your training. On this point this people here is bewildered, perplexed, plunged in doubt. Destroy this arrow within!"
"Great king, this element Nirvana exists,--peaceful, blissful, sublime; and whoever orders his walk aright, whoever, in accordance with the teaching of the Conquerors, through wisdom, grasps the Aggregates, realizes Nirvana. Great king, just as a pupil, by following the instructions of his teacher, through wisdom, realizes what is to be known, precisely so, great king, a man, by ordering his walk aright, by following the teaching of the Conquerors, by wisdom, realizes Nirvana."
"But how is Nirvana to be viewed? By its freedom from trouble, by its freedom from adversity, by its freedom from peril, by its security, by its peace, by its bliss, by its sweetness, by its sublimity, by its purity, by its coolness."
"Great king, just as a man burning in a blazing, crackling fire heaped up with many faggots, escaping therefrom with effort, entering a place free from fire, will there experience supreme bliss, precisely so, great king, whoever orders his walk aright, will, by diligent mental effort, realize Nirvana, Supreme Bliss, from which the torment of the Three-fold Fire is absent.
"Great king, the fire of faggots is to be viewed as the Three-fold Fire; the man in the fire is to be viewed as the man who orders his walk aright; the place free from fire is to be viewed as Nirvana.
"Or again, great king, just as a man in a heap of fragments of corpses and excrement of snakes and dogs and men, enmeshed in the tangled tangles of corpses, escaping therefrom with effort, entering a place free from corpses, will there experience supreme bliss, precisely so, great king, whoever orders his walk aright, will, by diligent mental effort, realize Nirvana, Supreme Bliss, from which the torment of the Three-fold Fire is absent.
"Great king, the corpses are to be viewed as the Five Pleasures of Sense; the man among the corpses is to be viewed as the man who orders his walk aright; the place free from corpses is to be viewed as Nirvana.
"Or again, great king, just as a man, frightened, trembling, quaking, his thoughts whirling and twirling, escaping from that peril with effort, entering a place that is firm and fast and immovable and free from peril, will there experience supreme bliss, precisely so, great king, whoever orders his walk aright, will, by diligent mental effort, realize Nirvana, Supreme Bliss, from which the torment of the Three-fold Fire is absent.
"Great king, the peril is to be viewed as the perils which proceed forth, one after another, from Birth, Old Age, Disease, and Death; the man in a fright is to be viewed as the man who orders his walk aright; the place free from peril is to be viewed as Nirvana.
"Or again, great king, just as a man fallen in a place that is foul and filthy, full of mud and mire, removing that mud and mire with effort, going to a place that is perfectly clean, free from filth, will there experience supreme bliss, precisely so, great king, whoever orders his walk aright, will, by diligent mental effort, realize Nirvana, from which the filth and mire of the Depravities is absent.
"Great king, the mud is to be viewed as gain and honor and fame; the man in the mud is to be viewed as the man who orders his walk aright; the place that is perfectly clean, free from filth, is to be viewed as Nirvana."
"Now as to the statement: 'A person, by ordering his walk aright, realizes Nirvana.' What is meant by the expression: 'by ordering his walk aright'?"
"Whoever, great king, orders his walk aright, grasps the course of the Aggregates. Grasping their course, he sees therein Birth, he sees therein Old Age, he sees therein Disease, he sees therein Death. He sees therein nothing that is pleasant, nothing that is agreeable; from the beginning to the middle to the end he sees nothing therein which it is possible for him to lay hold of.
"Great king, just as in the case of a man who, when an iron ball has been heated all day until it blazes and glows and crackles, from the beginning to the middle to the end sees no spot which it is possible for him to lay hold of, precisely so, great king, in the case of a man who grasps the course of the Aggregates;--grasping their course, he sees therein Birth, he sees therein Old Age, he sees therein Disease, he sees therein Death; he sees therein nothing that is pleasant, nothing that is agreeable; from the beginning to the middle to the end he sees nothing which it is possible for him to lay hold of. When he sees that there is nothing which it is possible for him to lay hold of, discontent springs up and abides in his heart, a fever descends upon his body; being without protection, without a refuge, refugeless, he conceives disgust for the Existences.
"Suppose, great king, a man were to enter a mighty mass of fire of flaming flames; being without protection there, without a refuge, refugeless, he would conceive disgust for the fire. Precisely so, great king, when the man in question sees that there is nothing which it is possible for him to lay hold of, discontent springs up and abides in his heart, a fever descends upon his body; being without protection, without a refuge, refugeless, he conceives disgust for the Existences.
"When he sees the perils in the course of the Aggregates, the following thought arises within him: 'Red-hot, indeed, is this course of the Aggregates,--flaming and blazing, full of suffering, full of despair! If only one might obtain cessation of the course of the Aggregates,--that were good, that were excellent!--namely, quiescence of all the Aggregates, riddance of all the Conditions of Existence, destruction of Craving, freedom from Lust, Cessation, Nirvana!' Thus indeed these thoughts of his spring forward to the cessation of the course of the Aggregates, are satisfied, bristle with joy, leap for joy: 'I have indeed gained Escape from the Round of Existences!"
"Great king, just as a man traveling in an unfamiliar region who has lost his way, upon seeing a path which will take him out, springs forward thereto, is satisfied, bristles with joy, leaps for joy: 'I have gained a path which will take me out!' precisely so, great king, the thoughts of a man who sees the perils in the course of the Aggregates, spring forward to the cessation of the course of the Aggregates, are satisfied, bristle for joy, leap for joy: 'I have indeed gained Escape from the Round of Existences!'
"To cessation of the course of the Aggregates he battles, seeks, cultivates, broadens, a way. To that end mindfulness abides steadfast in him, to that end vigor abides steadfast in him, to that end joy abides steadfast in him. As he continues mental effort from one point to another, those thoughts of his leap over the course of the Aggregates and descend upon cessation of the course of the Aggregates; then he has reached cessation of the course of the Aggregates.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the statement: 'A person, by ordering his walk aright, realizes Nirvana.'"
"Good, Reverend Nagasena! It is just as you say! I agree absolutely!"
"Reverend Nagasena, is this region in the East, or in the South, or in the West, or in the North, or above or below or across,--this region where Nirvana is located?"
"Great king, the region does not exist, either in the East, or in the South, or in the West, or in the North, or above or below or across, where Nirvana is located."
"If, Reverend Nagasena, there is no place where Nirvana is located, then there is no Nirvana; and as for those who have realized Nirvana, their realization also is vain. Let me tell you why I think so:
"Reverend Nagasena, just as on earth, a field is the place of origin of crops, a flower is the place of origin of odors, a bush is the place of origin of flowers, a tree is the place of origin of fruits, a mine is the place of origin of jewels, insomuch that whoever desires anything, has but to go to the proper place and get it,--precisely so, Reverend Nagasena, if Nirvana really exists, it also follows that a place of origin of this Nirvana must be postulated. But since, Reverend Nagasena, there is no place of origin of Nirvana, therefore I say: There is no Nirvana; and as for those who have realized Nirvana: Their realization also is vain."
"Great king, there is no place where Nirvana is located. Nevertheless, this Nirvana really exists; and a man, by ordering his walk aright, by diligent mental effort, realizes Nirvana.
"Great king, just as there is such a thing as fire, but no place where it is located,--the fact being that a man, by rubbing two sticks together, produces fire,--so also, great king, there is such a thing as Nirvana, but no place where it is located,--the fact being that a man, by ordering his walk aright, by diligent mental effort, realizes Nirvana.
"Or again, great king, just as there are Seven Jewels of a King, to wit, the Jewel of the Wheel of Empire, the Jewel of the Elephant, the Jewel of the Horse, the Jewel of the Gem, the Jewel of the Woman, the Jewel of the Householder, the Jewel of the Captain,--but no place exists where these Jewels are located,--the fact being that a Prince, by ordering his walk aright, by a right walk, comes by these Jewels,--precisely so, great king, there is such a thing as Nirvana, but no place where it is located,--the fact being that a man, by ordering his walk aright, by diligent mental effort, realizes Nirvana."
"Reverend Nagasena, let it be granted that there is no place where Nirvana is located. But is there a place where a man must stand to order his walk aright and realize Nirvana?"
"Yes, great king, there is a place where a man must stand to order his walk aright and realize Nirvana."
"But what, Reverend Sir, is the place where a man must stand to order his walk aright and realize Nirvana?"
"Morality, great king, is the place! Abiding steadfast in Morality, putting forth diligent mental effort,--whether in the land of the Scythians or in the land of the Greeks, whether in China or in Tartary, whether in Alexandria or in Nikumba, whether in Kasi or in Kosala, whether in Cashmere or in Gandhara, whether on a mountain-top or in the highest heaven,--no matter where a man may stand, by ordering his walk aright, he realizes Nirvana."
"Good, Reverend Nagasena! You have made it plain what Nirvana is, you have made it plain what the realization of Nirvana is, you have well described the Power of Morality, you have made it plain how a man orders his walk aright, you have uplifted the Banner of Truth, you have set the Eye of Truth in its socket, you have demonstrated that Right Effort on the part of those who put forth diligent effort is not barren. It is just as you say, most excellent of excellent teachers! I agree absolutely!"
Now King Milinda approached Venerable Nagasena. Having approached, he bowed to Venerable Nagasena and sat down on one side. Sitting on one side, King Milinda, desiring to know, desiring to hear, desiring to bear in mind, desiring to see the Light of Knowledge, desiring to rend Ignorance asunder, desiring to make the Light of Knowledge rise, desiring to destroy the Darkness of Ignorance, summoning np surpassing courage and energy and mindfulness and intelligence, said this to Venerable Nagasena:
"Reverend Nagasena,--but did you ever see the Buddha?"--"No indeed, great king."
"But did your teachers ever see the Buddha?"--"No indeed, great king."
"Reverend Nagasena, you say you never saw the Buddha, and you say your teachers never saw the Buddha either. Well then, Reverend Nagasena, the Buddha never existed! for there is nothing here to show that he ever did!"
"But, great king, did Kings exist of old,--those who were your predecessors in the line of Kings?"--"Yes, Reverend Sir,--why doubt? Kings did exist of old,--those who were my predecessors in the line of Kings."
"Did you, great king, ever see those Kings of old?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, did those who instructed you,--house-priests, commanders-in-chief, judges, ministers,--did they ever see those Kings of old?"--"No indeed, Reverend Sir."
"But, great king, if you never saw those Kings of old, and if, as you say, your instructors never saw those Kings of old either,--where are those Kings of old?--for there is nothing here to show that those Kings of old ever existed!"
"Visible, Reverend Nagasena, are the insignia employed by Kings of old, to wit, the white jjarasol, the diadem, the slippers, the yak's tail fan, the jeweled sword, and the couches of great price. By these, we may know and believe: 'Kings existed of old.'"
"Precisely so, great king, we also, with reference to that Exalted One, may know and believe. There is a reason why we may know and believe: 'That Exalted One existed.' What is the reason? There exist, great king, the insignia employed by that Exalted One, the All-knowing One, the All-seeing One, the All-worthy, the Supremely Enlightened, the Buddha; to wit, the Four Intent Contemplations, the Four Right Exertions, the Four Bases of Magical Power, the Five Sensations, the Five Forces, the Seven Prerequisites of Enlightenment, the Noble Eight-fold Path. By these, the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods know and believe: 'That Exalted One existed.' This, great king, is the reason, this is the cause, this is the way, this is the method of inference, by which it is to be known: 'That Exalted One existed.'"
"As for him who ferried a multitude over the Ocean of Rebirth, Who, by destroying the Constituents of Being, attained Nirvana, By inference may it be known: 'That Best of Men existed.'"
"Reverend Nagasena, give an illustration."
"Take the case, great king, of the builder of a city. Desiring to create a city, he would first of all look out a spot of ground which was smooth, without elevations, without depressions, free from stones and rocks, immune from attack, faultless, pleasing to the eye. The rough places therein, he would make smooth; stumps and brambles he would clear away. There he would create a city,--resplendent, well-proportioned, divided into parts, with trenches and ramparts thrown up, with strong gates and towers and fortifications, with broad commons and squares and junctions and crossroads, with clean, smooth-surfaced king's highways, with well-proportioned open shops, furnished with groves and gardens and lakes and lotus-pools and wells, adorned with all manner of holy places, free from all faults. When that city was complete in every way, he would go to another country. And after a time that city would become prosperous, flourishing, plentifully supplied with food, secure, highly prosperous, happy, free from trouble, immune from attack, the resort of all sorts and conditions of men. And all sorts and conditions of men...from all parts of the earth...coming to that city to live, and seeing that it was new, well-proportioned, free from defect, free from fault, pleasing to the eye, would know by inference: 'Skillful indeed was that city-builder who created this city!'
"Precisely so, great king, that Exalted One, without an equal, without equals, without a peer, without a similar, not to be weighed, not to be reckoned, not to be measured, not to be estimated, whose virtues were immeasurable, who attained the perfection of virtues, whose wisdom was endless, whose glory was endless, whose vigor was endless, whose power was endless, who attained the perfection of the Powers of a Buddha,--precisely so that Exalted One conquered Mara the Evil One and his host, burst asunder the Net of False Views, put down Ignorance, uplifted Knowledge, upheld the Torch of Righteousness, attained Omniscience, and unconquered and unconquerable in the fight, created the City of Righteousness.
"Moreover, great king, the City of Righteousness created by the Exalted One has Morality for its ramparts, Shame for its trenches, Knowledge for its battlemented gateway, Vigor for its towers, Faith for its pillars, Mindfulness for its gate-keeper, Wisdom for its terraced heights, the Suttantas for its commons and squares, the Abhidhamma for its junctions and crossroads, the Vinaya for its court of justice, the Earnest Meditations for its street.
"Moreover, great king, in this City of Righteousness, in the Street of the Earnest Meditations, Seven Shops are open, and these are their names: a Flower-shop, a Perfume-shop, a Fruit-shop, a Medicine-shop, an Herb-shop, an Ambrosia-shop, a Jewel-shop,--and a General shop."
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Flower-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"There exist, great king, proclaimed by the Exalted One, the All-knowing One, the All-seeing One, the All-worthy, the Supremely Enlightened, Subjects of Meditation, duly systematized and classified, as follows: the Ideas of Impermanence, Unreality, Impurity, Disadvantage, Renunciation, Passionlessness, Cessation; the Idea of Dissatisfaction with any and all worlds; the Idea of the Impermanence of the Constituents of Being; Meditation on In-and-Out-breathing; Ideas of the Corpses: bloated, purple, festering, fissured, gnawed, scattered, pounded-and-scattered, bloody, wormy, bony; the Ideas of Friendliness, Compassion, Joy, Indifference; Meditation on Death; Meditation on the Body. These, great king, are the Subjects of Meditation, duly systematized and classified, proclaimed by the Exalted One, the Buddha.
"With reference to these,--whoever desires to be delivered from Old Age and Death, chooses one or another of these Subjects of Meditation, and by means of this Subject of Meditation obtains deliverance from Lust, Ill-will, Delusion, Pride, False Views; crosses the Ocean of the Round of Existences; stems the Stream of Craving; cleanses himself of the Threefold Stain; destroys all the Contaminations; enters that Best of Cities, the City of Nirvana, which is free from stain, free from dust, clean white, free from Birth, free from Old Age, free from Death, which is Bliss, Coolness, Freedom from Peril,--through Sainthood obtains deliverance of the heart.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Flower-shop of the Buddha.
"With Karma as the price, go up unto the shop;
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Perfume-shop of the Exalted One the Buddha?"
"There exist, great king, proclaimed by the Exalted One, certain Precepts, duly systematized and divided; and anointed with the Perfume of these Precepts, the sons of the Exalted One fume and perfume with the Perfume of the Precepts the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods. They exhale fragrance, they exhale exceeding sweet fragrance, in the principal directions, in the intermediate directions, with the wind, against the wind; they abide ever suffusing them.
"Now what are these Precepts, duly systematized and divided? The Precepts of the Refuges, the Five Precepts, the Eight Precepts, the Ten Precepts, the Precepts of Restraint contained in the Book of Confession and included in the Five Recitations thereof.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Perfume-shop of the Buddha. Moreover, great king, this has been said by the Exalted One, god over gods:
"The perfume of flowers goes not against the wind,
"Above and beyond all varieties of perfume,
"Weak is this perfume, this perfume of Tagara and of sandal;
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Fruit-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"There are Fruits, great king, proclaimed by the Exalted One, to wit: the Fruit of Conversion, the Fruit of one-who-will-be-reborn-but-once, the Fruit of one-who-will-be-reborn-no-more-on-earth, and the Fruit of Sainthood; the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from the Depravities; the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from the Marks of Lust, Ill-will, and Delusion; the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from Inclination thereto. Of these, whichever Fruit a man desires, he gives Karma as the price, and buys the Fruit he wants.
"Suppose, great king, some man or other had a mango-tree which bore fruit continually, and suppose he never shook down mangoes so long as buyers did not come, but when a buyer arrived, he took the price and told him this: 'Master man, this mango-tree bears fruit continually; take from it as much fruit as you want,--immature, or decayed, or hairy, or unripe, or ripe'; and suppose the buyer, for the price he had given the seller, if he wanted immature, took immature; if he wanted decayed, took decayed; if he wanted hairy, took hairy; if he wanted unripe, took unripe; if he wanted ripe, took ripe.
"Precisely so, great king, whichever Fruit a man desires, he gives Karma as the price, and buys the Fruit he wants. If he desires the Fruit of Conversion, he receives it; if he desires the Fruit of one-who-will-be-reborn-but-once, he receives it; if he desires the Fruit of one-who-will-be-reborn-no-more-on-earth, he receives it; if he desires the Fruit of Sainthood, he receives it; if he desires the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from the Depravities, he receives it; if he desires the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from the Marks of Lust, Ill-will, and Delusion, he receives it; if he desires the Attainment of the Fruit of Freedom from Inclination thereto, he receives it.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Fruit-shop of the Buddha.
"People give Karma as the price, and buy the Fruit of the Deathless;
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Medicine-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"There are Medicines, great king, proclaimed by the Exalted One, and with these Medicines that Exalted One frees the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods from the Poison of the Depravities. Now what are these Medicines? Great king, they are the Four Noble Truths proclaimed by the Exalted One; to wit, the Noble Truth regarding Suffering, the Noble Truth regarding the Origin of Suffering, the Noble Truth regarding the Cessation of Suffering, the Noble Truth regarding the Way to the Cessation of Suffering. Now whosoever, longing for Sublime Knowledge, hearken to the Doctrine of the Four Truths, they are delivered from Birth, they are delivered from Old Age, they are delivered from Death, they are delivered from sorrow, lamentation, suffering, dejection, and despair.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Medicine-shop of the Buddha.
"Of all the medicines in the world that are antidotes for poison,
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Herb-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"There are Herbs, great king, proclaimed by the Exalted One, with which herbs that Exalted One cures both gods and men; to wit: the Four Earnest Meditations, the Four Right Exertions, the Four Bases of Magical Power, the Five Sensations, the Five Forces, the Seven Prerequisites of Enlightenment, the Noble Eightfold Path. With these Herbs the Exalted One purges Wrong Views, purges Wrong Resolution, purges Wrong Speech, purges Wrong Conduct, purges Wrong Means of Livelihood, purges Wrong Exertion, purges Wrong Mindfulness, purges Wrong Concentration; produces vomiting of Desire, produces vomiting of Ill-will, produces vomiting of Delusion, produces vomiting of Pride, produces vomiting of False Views, produces vomiting of Doubt, produces vomiting of Arrogance, produces vomiting of Sloth-and-Torpor, produces vomiting of Shamelessness and of Fearlessness of Wrongdoing,--produces vomiting of all the Depravities.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Herb-shop of the Buddha.
"Of all the herbs that are known in the world, many and various,
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Ambrosia-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"An Ambrosia, great king, has been proclaimed by the Exalted One, and with this Ambrosia that Exalted One sprinkles the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods; and sprinkled with this Ambrosia, both gods and men have obtained deliverance from Birth, Old Age, Disease, Death, and from sorrow, lamentation, suffering, dejection, and despair. What is this Ambrosia? It is Meditation on the Body. Moreover, great king, this has been said by the Exalted One, god over gods: 'Ambrosia, O monks, do they enjoy who enjoy Meditation on the Body.'
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Ambrosia-shop of the Buddha.
"Afflicted with disease he saw mankind, and opened an Ambrosia-shop. 'With Karma, monks, come, buy and eat Ambrosia!'"
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the Jewel-shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"Jewels, great king, have been proclaimed by the Exalted One, and adorned with these Jewels, the sons of the Exalted One brighten, illuminate, irradiate, the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods,--shine, shine forth,--diffuse light above, below, across. What are these Jewels? The Jewel of the Precepts of Morality, the Jewel of Concentration, the Jewel of Wisdom, the Jewel of Deliverance, the Jewel of Insight through Knowledge of Deliverance, the Jewel of the Analytical Powers, the Jewel of the Prerequisites of Enlightenment.
"What, great king, is the Jewel of the Precepts of Morality proclaimed by the Exalted One? It is the Precepts of Restraint contained in the Book of Confession, the Precepts of Restraint of the Organs of Sense, the Precepts regarding Purity of Means of Livelihood, the Precepts relating to the Monastic Requisites, the Lower Precepts, the Middle Precepts, the Higher Precepts, the Precepts regarding the Paths, the Precepts regarding the Fruits. Moreover, great king, for a man adorned with the Jewel of the Precepts of Morality, all living beings, the world of men, the Worlds of the Gods, the World of Mara, the World of Brahma, the world of monks and nuns, cherish affection, cherish longing. Moreover, great king, a monk wearing the Jewel of the Precepts of Morality, brightens, brightens exceedingly, the principal directions and the intermediate directions, above and below and across; from the Waveless Hell below to the Highest Heaven above, he abides irradiating light which exceeds, which surpasses, the light of all the jewels that are between. Such, great king, are the Jewels of the Precepts of Morality which are exposed for sale in the Jewel-shop of the Exalted One.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel-shop of the Buddha.
"Such are the Precepts in the Shop of the Buddha;
"What, great king, is the Jewel of Concentration proclaimed by the Exalted One?
"Concentration with which is associated reasoning, with which is associated investigation; Concentration which is devoid of reasoning, with which investigation only is associated; Concentration which is devoid of reasoning, which is devoid of investigation; Concentration on Freedom from the Depravities; Concentration on Freedom from the Marks of Lust, Ill-will, and Delusion; Concentration on Freedom from Inclination thereto.
"Moreover, great king, when a monk wears the Jewel of Concentration, thoughts of Lust, thoughts of Ill-will, thoughts of Injury, and the many and various evil thoughts which have their bases in the Depravities of Pride, Arrogance, False Views, and Doubt,--all these, on encountering Concentration, scatter, disperse, fall away, abide not, adhere not.
"Precisely, great king, as water on a lotus leaf scatters, disperses, falls away, abides not, adheres not,--why is this? because of the purity of the lotus leaf,--just so, great king, when a monk wears the Jewel of Concentration, thoughts of Lust, thoughts of Ill-will, thoughts of Injury, and the many and various evil thoughts which have their bases in the Depravities of Pride, Arrogance, False Views, and Doubt,--all these, on encountering Concentration, scatter, disperse, fall away, abide not, adhere not. Why is this? Because of the purity of Concentration.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of Concentration proclaimed by the Exalted One. Such, great king, are the Jewels of Concentration exposed for sale in the Jewel-shop of the Exalted One.
"Let a monk wear the Necklace of the Jewels of Concentration,
"What, great king, is the Jewel of Wisdom proclaimed by the Exalted One?
"Great king, it is the Wisdom with which the Noble Disciple perceives aright: 'This is good;' perceives aright: 'That is not good;' perceives aright that this is blameworthy and that is not, that this is low and that is high, that this is dark and that is light, that this resembles dark and light; perceives aright: 'This is Suffering;' perceives aright: 'This is the Origin of Suffering;' perceives aright: 'This is the Cessation of Suffering;' perceives aright: 'This is the Path which leads to the Cessation of Suffering.'
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of Wisdom proclaimed by the Exalted One.
"Let a monk wear the Necklace of the Jewels of Wisdom,
"What, great king, is the Jewel of Deliverance proclaimed by the Exalted One? Sainthood, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of Deliverance; and, great king, a monk who has attained Sainthood is said to wear the Jewel of Deliverance.
"Precisely, great king, as a man adorned with ornaments of strings of pearls and gems and gold and coral, his limbs anointed..., gaily decked with flowers..., surpassing other folk, is resplendent, is resplendent exceedingly, shines down, shines forth, shines all about, gleams, gleams forth, overwhelms, overspreads, with his adornments of garlands and perfumes and jewels,--just so, great king, a monk who has attained Sainthood, who has rid himself of the Contaminations, who wears the Jewel of Deliverance, surpassing, far surpassing, all other monks beginning with those in the lowest grade of attainment and extending to those who have attained Deliverance, is resplendent, is resplendent exceedingly, shines down, shines forth, shines all about, gleams, gleams forth, overwhelms, overspreads, with Deliverance. Why is this? Because, great king, this Adornment is the foremost of all the adornments,--that is to say, the Adornment of Deliverance.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of Deliverance proclaimed by the Exalted One.
"To one who wears a necklace of gems,
"What, great king, is the Jewel of Insight through Knowledge of Deliverance, proclaimed by the Exalted One? Knowledge through Self-examination, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of Insight through Knowledge of Deliverance, proclaimed by the Exalted One. For by this Knowledge the Noble Disciple examines the Paths and the Fruits and Nirvana, the Depravities he has got rid of, and the Depravities which remain.
"That Knowledge by which the Noble know their accomplishments,--
"What, great king, is the Jewel of the Analytical Powers proclaimed by the Exalted One? Four in number, great king, are the Analytical Powers: Understanding of the Meaning of Words, Understanding of the Doctrine, Grammar and Exegesis, and Readiness in Speaking. Adorned, great king, with these Four Analytical Powers, a monk, no matter what manner of assemblage he approaches, whether it be an assemblage of Warriors or an assemblage of Brahmans or an assemblage of householders or an assemblage of religious, approaches confident, approaches that assemblage untroubled, unafraid, unalarmed, untrembling, with no bristling of the hair of the body.
"Precisely, great king, as a warrior, a hero in battle, girded with the Five Weapons, goes into battle: 'If enemies shall be far off, I will lay them low with arrows; if they shall be nearer, I will hit them with the javelin; if they shall be nearer yet, I will hit them with the spear; if an enemy shall come to close quarters with me, I will cleave him in twain with my saber; if he shall grapple with me, I will pierce him through and through with my knife;'--just so, great king, a monk, adorned with the Jewel of the Four Analytical Powers, approaches an assemblage unafraid:
"'If any man shall ask me a question involving Understanding of the Meaning of Words, I will tell him the meaning by another meaning; I will tell him the reason by another reason; I will tell him the cause by another cause: I will tell him the way by another way: I will render him free from doubt, I will dispel his perplexity, I will delight him with my handling of the question.
"'If any man shall ask me a question involving Understanding of the Doctrine, to him I will explain the Doctrine by another doctrine, the Deathless by ambrosia, the Uncreate by the uncreated, Nirvana by extinguishment, Freedom from the Depravities by freedom, Freedom from the Marks of Lust, Ill-will, and Delusion, by freedom from marks, Freedom from Inclination thereto by freedom by inclination, Freedom from Lust by freedom from lust: I will render him free from doubt, I will dispel his perplexity, I will delight him with my handling of the question.
"'If any man shall ask me a question involving Grammar and Exegesis, to him I will explain one etymology by another etymology, one word by another word, one particle by another particle, one letter by another letter, one assimilation by another assimilation, one consonant by another consonant, one semi-consonant by another semi-consonant, one vowel by another vowel, one accent by another accent, one rule by another rule, one usage by another usage: I will render him free from doubt, I will dispel his perplexity, I will delight him with my handling of the question.
"'If any man shall ask me a question involving Readiness in Speaking, to him I will render easy of comprehension one exposition by another exposition, one comparison by another comparison, one characteristic by another characteristic, one quality by another quality: I will render him free from doubt, I will dispel his perplexity, I will delight him with my handling of the question.'
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of the Analytical Powers proclaimed by the Exalted One.
"Whoever, buying the Analytical Powers touches them with Knowledge,
"What, great king, is the Jewel of the Prerequisites of Enlightenment proclaimed by the Exalted One? Seven in number, great king, are these Prerequisites of Enlightenment: Mindfulness, Examination of the Doctrine, Vigor, Joy, Repose, Concentration, Indifference. Adorned, great king, with these Seven Prerequisites of Enlightenment, a monk overcomes all darkness, and brightens, illuminates, and irradiates the world of men and the Worlds of the Gods.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the Jewel of the Prerequisites of Enlightenment proclaimed by the Exalted One.
"Before a monk wearing the Necklace of the
"Reverend Nagasena, what is the General shop of the Exalted One, the Buddha?"
"Great king, the General shop of the Exalted One is the Ninefold Word of the Buddha, relics of his body, relics consisting of things which he used, mounds erected over them, and the Jewel of the Order of Monks. In the General shop, great king, the Exalted One has exposed for sale the Attainments of high birth, wealth, long life, health, beauty, wisdom, worldly glory, heavenly glory, Nirvana. Whoever desire any one of these Attainments, give Karma as the price, and buy whatever Attainment they long for. Some buy by taking upon themselves the Precepts, some buy by keeping Fast-day; with Karma as the price, though it be but the merest trifle, they obtain the Attainments, beginning with the lowest and extending to the highest.
"Precisely, great king, as in the shop of a shop-keeper, with a very small quantity of sesame and beans or a small quantity of rice and beans as the price, men obtain what they require, beginning with the least and extending to the greatest, just so, great king, in the General shop of the Exalted One, with Karma as the price, though it be but the merest trifle, men receive the Attainments in return, beginning with the lowest and extending to the highest.
"This, great king, is what is meant by the General shop of the Exalted One.
"Long life, health, beauty, heaven, high birth,
"Like the earth are they in properties, for they are a firm footing to those who desire Salvation.
"Like water are they, for they wash away all the flecks of the Depravities.
"Like fire are they, for they burn the whole forest of the Depravities.
"Like wind are they, for they blow away all the dust and flecks of the Depravities.
"Like medicine are they, for they cure all the diseases of the Depravities.
"Like ambrosia are they, for they counteract all the poisons of the Depravities.
"Like a field are they, for therein grow crops of all the virtues of the Religious Life.
"Like the wish-fulfiller are they, for they grant all the Attainments prayed for and longed for by those who desire Salvation.
"Like a ship are they, for they ferry those who desire Salvation across the Great Ocean of the Round of Existences.
"Like a shelter for the frightened are they, for they restore confidence to those who are frightened by Old Age and Death.
"Like a mother are they, for they treat kindly those who are oppressed with the sufferings caused by the Depravities.
"Like a father are they, for they foster all the virtues of the Religious Life in those who desire to increase in good works.
"Like a friend are they, for they break not their word to those who seek after all the virtues of the Religious Life.
"Like the lotus are they, for to them adhere not any of the flecks of the Depravities.
"Like the four choice kinds of perfumes are they, for they dispel the foul odors of the Depravities.
"Like a lofty mountain-peak are they, for they cannot be shaken by the winds of the Eight Conditions of Life.
"Like space are they, for they are impalpable, broad, diffused, outspread, mighty.
"Like a river are they, for they wash away the flecks of the Depravities.
"Like a skillful guide are they, for they conduct those who desire Salvation out of the wilderness of Rebirth, out of the tangle of the forest of the Depravities.
"Like a mighty caravan-leader are they, for they enable those who desire Salvation to reach that blessed, most blessed, City of Nirvana, which is free from all perils, secure, without perils.
"Like a well-polished, spotless mirror are they, for they enable those who desire Salvation to see the true nature of the Constituents of Being.
"Like a shield are they, for they ward off the clubs and arrows and swords of the Depravities.
"Like an umbrella are they, for they ward off the rain of the Depravities, and the heating and scorching of the Threefold Fire.
"Like the moon are they, for they are prayed for and longed for by those who desire Salvation.
"Like the sun are they, for they dispel the darkness and gloom of Delusion.
"Like the ocean are they, for to those who desire Salvation they are the place of origin of the priceless jewels of the many and various virtues of the Religious Life; and they are not to be measured, not to be reckoned, not to be estimated."
